Episode 19 Divorce and Separation support with Becca Maxwell
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Kristi: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the CAPE Podcast. CAPE standing for the Child Abuse Prevention and Education Podcast. My name is Christy McVie and I am an ex West Australian police officer who spent 10 years with the police where I was trained as a specialist child interviewer and a child abuse detective. This podcast is all about sharing what I learnt, saw and knew whilst investigating child sexual abuse in the police force.
It is also about sharing the knowledge that I gained in that time that helped me with my own parenting of my then two year old daughter. My mission is to help share my knowledge and to help you in your role as parents to keep your kids safe along with guest experts in the field of child abuse prevention and education, both in person and online.
Thank you so much for joining in on the fight to prevent child sexual abuse. Your kids will thank you for it.
, Welcome back to the Operation Kate podcast. Today, my guest is Becca Maxwell from Do Divorce Right. Becca had me [00:01:00] on her podcast, the Do Divorce Right podcast to talk about child safety when you're dealing with separation and divorce. And we had a wonderful chat and I thought that Becca had so much amazing inspiration and information that could be really helpful for my own listeners of the podcast.
So I've asked Becca to be here. So thank you so much, Becca.
Becca: Thanks for having me. Gosh, the pressure.
Kristi: There's no pressure here, but this is a conversation. Um, but Becca specializes in, and coaches. People or women, should I say, through divorce and separation. And I know a lot of people are dealing with, some of these issues they can sometimes become bigger than what it could be or should be.
And, you know, it's a tough time for all involved. I know it's a very tough time. I mean, I can't remember if I mentioned it in our podcast interview, but my husband and I, even though we've been together 27 years, had a, a brief separation all those years ago. Yeah, I did. And you know, [00:02:00] it was tough and I remember,, like at least the first three to six months is really tough.
And , we ended up reconciling and getting back together. We've been together since, but yeah, it was a tough time. And so I can really relate to how difficult it is in that period of time when your world's upturned.
Becca: Shaking, right. It absolutely shakes your foundations, whether it was your choice or not.
Yeah. Everything changes and it just takes us some time to be able to see the possibilities in that because first you have to deal with what's broken, what's different, what's changed, what's new, and it is foundation shaking.
Kristi: So, and then you add in a couple of kids. Yeah. And, worry about what's going on for them and, others will affect them and, what are you going to do?
And yeah, so like it is foundation shaking, but then you've got some little people to worry about in the same breath, like in the same time. And worried
Becca: about how are they coping because their foundations are shaking, right? And [00:03:00] how do we protect them? Don't just mean physically protect them, which is, which is your work, but also how do we protect their emotions and their future?
And you know, how do we make sure that they can survive this pretty, am I allowed to swear? It can be an absolute shit show. And it's really important to manage ourselves, our own reaction and our own behaviors through it in order to be the best possible version of the shit show that it's going to be.
It's out unscathed. It changes us. Um, it really does. Yeah. And the goal is to get through your separation and divorce, still liking yourself, ideally having a good amicable relationship with your ex partner, who you're no longer in a partnership with, but you're still, if you're parenting, you're still going to be co parenting with and then going on to build.
An unrecognizably gorgeous life for yourself. It's not only possible, it's [00:04:00] probable, right? There's a reason you're separated. It's because this doesn't work anymore. So, you know, you, there's the difficult bit. There's the, the challenges of the, you know, the practical and the foundation shaking. And then it starts to settle in the way that you choose, which is so much nicer than the way it was.
Kristi: Yeah. Totally. Totally. And, you know, like you said at the start, sometimes you don't choose it and sometimes you do. , and I said this before we started recording is that, you know, generally relationships break up because your values and your beliefs don't align anymore. That is really what it comes down to.
Yeah. And it's, and it's not, you know, it's not the, well, it feels like the end of the world. when it starts, when it's, when it's new, but it's not the end of the world. It will move on. Let's start with what you do as a job. So how do you help women with regards to their separation and divorces?
Becca: It really depends on where they're [00:05:00] at when they come to me, but The key part of it. So I have been a consultant in relational intelligence for a long time, right? So I help people deal with really challenging emotions and challenging behaviors and mostly understanding our own, triggers and reactions.
So. Ultimately, it depends on what her challenge is. In many cases, it's, I'm so overwhelmed. I don't know how to cope with this right now. So it's we set goals, right? So where do you want to be? You want to be less overwhelmed. What does that look like? How do we help you get there? And for some, it's, I need some support on.
How to make the decisions that I need to make, or I need some help talking to my children, like there's just all kinds of different questions that come up because every situation is different. Um, you asked me to think about those early stages of separation because And I think that's, if kind of playing back [00:06:00] to you, what I've heard, you said that a lot of women come to you and say, look, I'm a bit concerned.
We're about to separate and I don't know how to keep my child safe in a separate home now.
Kristi: Yeah. Well, you, cause you lose control over what happens in that other home. And as a mom, most, most of us are really worried about their safety, their wellbeing, their mental and physical health, you know, and then you, then you're.
You know, then they're going to another home where you don't have that control. You don't have those choices. So yeah. So
Becca: I spend a lot of time talking about it's like, how do you manage it? So there's the early stuff about preparing for separation. And so if there's anyone listening, who's thinking, Oh my God, I'm headed down this.
You've just said it's a shit show. I don't want that. Well, I guess the first thing is to. Really imagine what could the best case scenario be. So really articulate that for yourself and really imagine it. The best case scenario. In every case is avoiding going to court [00:07:00] because we don't want a judge making decisions for you and your family.
You we want you making decisions for you and your family, right? So best case scenario will look something like I have an amicable relationship with my ex. We are prioritizing parenting of the children. We live separately, but close enough for the children to have a relationship with both, whatever that is, right?
So really thinking that through, and then I've got a free download that we can put a link in the show about preparing for separation. And these, it's just a list of questions. It's kind of a worksheet, if you like list of questions to think through that are super duper practical, like, you know, again, you've thought through your best case scenario.
Um, but before you have the conversation with your ex about what you're soon to be ex about, what's going to happen, think through what it would look like for you. Who would move out? Like where would they go? What [00:08:00] access would they have? If they've moved out to the parental or to the marital home, right?
Where will the children spend time? Like super practical things, like who's going to pick them up from school. Yeah. And I'm not suggesting that person initiating the separation will have all of the answers. Yeah. I'm not suggesting they're going to get everything that they want it to be. But if you've thought through these questions, you've got a foundation to start the conversation with.
Yeah. Right. So work through all of those and then approach that conversation with as much flexibility as possible with that goal in mind of being. Amicable. We're going to get there together. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so that's the very, very early stages. And I talked to women at this point, like, okay, you're preparing to be open minded.
You've really got to know that there's flexibility in here. One of the guests on my [00:09:00] podcast had a really lovely phrase, which was, I can remember correctly, something like. You need to find your equal dissatisfaction. Like you're aiming for equal dissatisfaction in the divorce because no one wins this.
No, there is no winner and a loser. And like, I'm going to win this breakup. It isn't. So there's going to be mutual dissatisfaction and it's, well, what's the agreeable area there that I, that I can live with. So yeah, write down your best case scenario. Answer all of those questions in the download and then begin the conversation with as much empathy, flexibility.
It's a longer term. It's not a one and done. No, never.
Kristi: Right.
Becca: It's a conversation that will be revisited and revisited. But the goal is to come to a place where you've got some agreements. You can begin the separation from. Yep. And it's a huge thing [00:10:00] after that, right? A huge amount of compromise and emotional regulation.
And yeah. paving in the way that you wish you could not burning his shit on the front lawn. Like,
Kristi: well, I know, I know when I separated from my husband, it was, I initiated it and it came out of left field for him. Although, you know, if you had have looked at the behaviors and the issues beforehand, it wasn't out of left field, but a lot of people so used to living in that.
World of just being unhappy that when someone finally decides enough is enough, it's done that the other person goes, but. I'm not done yet. Like I, I thought we were, you know, I'm because you become used to it. And, you know, it took my husband really from out of left field at the time.
And he was like, you've been planning this, but I know in my mind, right. You know, and we've talked about it, talked it through, but in my mind, it wasn't a, there was no plan. It's just, I knew that I [00:11:00] couldn't keep going. It just came to a moment where it was a snap decision. And I'm sure any women who are listening can understand when, when you're done, you're done.
But you have been pushed until that point. You know, you've been unhappy for a long time. And men tend to make more snap decisions than women, right? Do you agree? I don't, I'm, I shouldn't really gender it, but. I don't know if I agree with that, but. But I, my husband, well, it's interesting because my husband has the tolerance of like, he's just so tolerant and patient.
Whereas, so he probably would have always stayed the same because he's happy in discomfort. He's happy in like his comfort zone. I was like. If it doesn't change, I can't ,deal it anymore. Right. And so I was willing to make a change. And I think, um, it's interesting that we just, this, this sometimes the second party or the other person in the relationship gets the wind taken out of their sails.
So I could understand why my husband was so upset. He was like, wait, I didn't have any clue that this was going to [00:12:00] happen. Like, where did this come from? But really it had been coming for a long time.
Becca: You raise a really good point. And actually, I want to talk about the timing of the conversation, because there's a very human reaction to change that is forced upon you.
Yeah. Right. We as humans. Like change is inevitable, but if change is forced upon you, you actually have a reaction that is very human and it's like the grief cycle. So Christy, if I was to say to you, your house is termite ridden, you have to move out tomorrow. But don't worry, I've got you a penthouse apartment or I've got you like this spectacular oceanfront home in your dream location. Your reaction would not be, Oh, Becca, that's so great. I'm so grateful for this new home.
It would be what the actual bluff I'm not moving. This is my home. This is not okay. Right. Your initial reaction to change that is forced upon you is a negative one. And it is just like that [00:13:00] kind of grief process that there's the emotions of forced change, which is you are frustrated by it. You get angry by it.
Um, you'll try and negotiate. So if you've said to somebody, I want to, I want to separate, and I've really thought about what great separation could look like for us. And I've answered all of these questions. Don't expect the other person to think, Oh yeah, brilliant. You've done all the work. I really appreciate it.
No, it's a difficult conversation. And actually it's the, like I said, it's the start of them. So you kind of, you need to broach that conversation with, uh, this is where I'm at. I've really thought about how we could make this the best possible version, but this is where I'm at. And I need you to take on board this information, let's follow up with another conversation next week.
But in the meantime, I'm going to move into the spare room or, you know, whatever it is, whatever it is. Yeah, exactly. But it, that initial conversation, they're not going to be like, Oh, super grateful. Love that for us.
Kristi: Well, if you haven't had a conversation around your displeasure [00:14:00] or your unhappiness or whatever and you're just going along like, well, this is how we are, and this is how it will always be, then of course, it's going to come out of left field.
But I know that first separation for my husband, we've never separated before, but we have had conversations since. We actually are very good at communicating our displeasure out, you know, we go and see therapist together. Especially when communication starts getting a bit rocky or our.
Value starts shifting and we're no longer valuing the same things or we're changing because you do you evolve and change. In 27 years. We are not the same people. We were at 15, 20, 25, 30, 35. No, of course not. So yeah.
Becca: Being able to evolve together. That
Kristi: is the idea. Well, that's the only way you can stay together.
So I can understand and sometimes it takes one person a little longer to understand that . Like that's why I don't know how I knew this, but I still, we started seeing a marriage therapist at 20. We've been married since 20 and we started seeing one pretty much straight away, maybe 22 long time ago because I [00:15:00] just, I don't know how or why, I don't know where it became like a thing for me, but I was like, no, we need to work things through.
And um, I highly recommend them because sometimes communication is hard.
Becca: Agreed. And especially really early, like that's very insightful that you went so early. But I think a lot of people, I feel like they should be like pre wedding therapists and talk you through it. And I think, you know, in churches, there are, you actually have to
Kristi: go through, you're allowed to make the commitment.
Becca: I love that because, I mean, I've been married twice and divorced twice. And, you know, one of the things I learned in the first one was you actually need to have a conversation about what does marriage mean to you? Like, how is this different to a relationship? What are you expecting to change? What are you expecting to stay the same?
Because one of you is probably, you know, expecting everything to be exactly the same. The other one's like fundamental shift. We're married now.
Kristi: It's different. Oh, that happened to me. We didn't agree on that. That happened to me. My [00:16:00] husband, I mean, we were so young and we really like should not have been married at that age.
We should have, we should have just had fun. But anyway, we were in a rush to grow up or something, we got married and it's so funny. I still tease him about it today. But we got married and like within a couple of weeks, I think it was after we got back from our honeymoon, he was like, okay, I expect dinner on the table at six o'clock and you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
When I get home and I just went and I just went, you married the wrong fucking woman. If you think that's going to happen, I mean, like, seriously, I know, but it was because that's what his grandparents did and that's what his parents did. And he just thought, well, that's marriage. And I literally was like.
Who the fuck are you? Like, you
Becca: know, the wrong woman, and
Kristi: I tease him about it now. Cause he's the one who does all the cooking. That's awesome. But, um, yeah, so I know, like, I really think there needs to be more conversations and I have this. Um, when I'm talking about parents and [00:17:00] parenting responsibility and roles, right, you know, you're responsible for and to that, that's with any relationship.
So if you're in a relationship with another human, you really need to consider, well, what's my responsibilities to myself what am I responsible for? And what am I responsible to? And we don't have those conversations. We don't have those things. We don't just, we just don't talk about it.
We just think mesh two people together and it's going to be, and it's going to be bliss. And then And then when it sold us that
Becca: fantasy, how stupid were we to think that that was possible?
You
Kristi: just throw two people into cohabitation and everything's going to be, but it's not. And, um, yeah, so I love that you said you know you've got this checklist in and it's no different to a work checklists we have any interpersonal relationship we have differences and we have things that you know so what about
Becca: this isn't it isn't the legal stuff right so just to be really clear I [00:18:00] haven't created a checklist of the legal stuff.
I don't even go into that space because you can get advice. And actually, once you start having that conversation around separation, my next piece of advice would be talk to lawyers. I don't want you to want one. I don't want either of you to need to use one. Yeah. But it's great to have just gather information.
And again, keeping in mind that it's equal dissatisfaction here. You're not, you're not going in to win, right? But if you can do a bit of a search on lawyers in your area that offer a 15 or 30 minute free call, take them up on it, gather as much information as you can around what did they think is reasonable.
And What would they suggest or recommend for your situation? And then sense check it with your own values. You will talk to some sharks, right? The sharks will be taken for everything. He'll pay for, you know, your European holidays until the children are 21. And they kind of want to enrage you to, [00:19:00] to entitlement.
Remind yourself, this isn't where we're headed. We want to avoid. Court, we, I want to come up with an agreement that is palatable for both of us. So gather the information, right? Have, have some experts, even a, I would much prefer to see people work with a great mediator. You can understand both sides, avoid court altogether.
You stick in a room and you talk it through until you can come up with an agreement. Yeah, and that's only required if it's conflict, right?
Kristi: But you can always, you can always have that. Well, you can always have that even if you don't have conflict, there is no harm in having someone help you talk this through.
Becca: Absolutely not. Right. A great mediator is worth their weight in gold. Um, so I thoroughly recommend gathering all of that information.
And now let's talk about parenting in two separate homes. Right. And losing that control. One thing I would say is if you've got an amicable relationship and you've worked really hard to start Foster that [00:20:00] you have a much better chance than of kind of influencing both homes that I recommend trying to control, but you also have a greater opportunity to get involved with any other adults that are going to be coming into your children's life.
For example, your now ex partners, new partners, right? You, if you've got an amicable relationship. It's more likely that you'll get to meet that person before the children do. It's more likely that you'll have a conversation about when is it appropriate to introduce this person. It's more likely that you'll have a conversation about when is it okay for that person to sleep over?
How do we talk about this person? How do we check in that the children are comfortable with them? Yeah. And when you're going to introduce someone into your new unit, you know, if you're going to start dating again, the checklist does kind of talk through this as well. Like if you're having a separation, do you agree to have sex together or not?
Are you [00:21:00] not going to be having sex anymore?
Kristi: Or is there going to be occasions where you can? Is that off the table? Right? Ah, yeah. It's really interesting because That happens.
Becca: It does happen. And if you don't have a plan for it, then it's like, oh, does that mean we're back together?
Kristi: No, that's, yeah, I know.
And that's, um, that Yeah, through exactly. It gets really tricky and, and feelings and emotions get involved. But at the heart of all of this conversation and what, what I'm about is about your children and your children having the best outcome, you know, kids are way more. Resilient and understanding, then we give them credit for, they understand so much more than what we know.
And they just want you to be happy because happy parents and, grounded parents are good parents. So many,
Becca: so many of my clients are like, Oh, but I'm fucking up my children. I feel so bad. And actually I had my son on one of my podcast episodes. And I was asking him like, what advice would you give to people about to [00:22:00] separate?
And he was like. It's not that bad.
Kristi: Well, maybe because you handled it well. Well,
Becca: it's been horrendous. Like I have a movie worthy, disgusting divorce. It's been awful. And yes, I handled it as well as possible. Right. And the kids are fine. You sheltered them well. Healthy,
Kristi: exactly. Yeah, and I remember, you know, when I did separate, my daughter doesn't even remember my separation with, from my husband.
How old was she at the time? She was five and what she, years gone by, like we were back together and everything was fine. And she actually said to me, mum, have you and dad ever broken up? And I said, yeah, when you were a baby and she goes, I had no idea. And like, because I sheltered her and I just made sure that nothing touched her.
And I had those conversations with my husband, even though he was really upset with me and he was really angry. I was like, this does not touch her.
Becca: You do not have conversations in front of her. We don't [00:23:00] speak badly about the other person in front of her. All of that's really
Kristi: important. And I also said to him.
What's going on between us is not her problem. It is not on her, you know, do not put your stuff onto our daughter because it's not her. And, and the main reason for that is I come from a separated family. So I, my parents separated when I was four. Six. I was about to say five, but I remember lots of fighting.
Um, and they separated when I was six and there was a lot of backwards and forwards until it settled a lot of don't remember my, well, here's the thing. I don't remember my parents talking badly about each other. I remember my stepmother who came in really quickly. And she badmouthed my mother.
She was always talking really badly about my mom. I think there was a lot of, I really
Becca: need amicable relationships. So I develop a relationship with the other person who's going to be in your children's
Kristi: lives. Yeah. And in actual fact, um, in my situation, I ended up with my dad and my step mom and was [00:24:00] with them until I, until I was kicked out of home.
Another story for another day, but I never saw my mom. And they moved far away and it was sort of a really interesting thing. Well, I mean, my mom we've had conversations about it, you know, we, we reignited that relationship.
And this is something I tell other parents when they're worried about parental alienation and stuff like that. I'm like, when your children are adults, they will be willing, they get to choose when they get to an age that they are no longer. Being controlled by the other parent, they will get to choose and that's their choice.
I also get
Becca: to choose the story as well. And this is another really key area that I talk to clients about, which is you can't necessarily protect your children from being affected by this. Right. You can create an environment that helps them come back to and heal. Right. So when they go [00:25:00] to your ex's house, if he has created an environment where they speak really negatively about you as, as the ex, right.
Um, You can't stop that from happening. You can't control what happens in the other home. You can't actually change somebody else's behavior. What you can do is create an environment where your children feel safe and comfortable. And as they get older, they'll figure it out. Yes. I understand that separation.
They're not going to judge you for the poison that he's put in their heads. No, that's right. They're going to judge him for putting like for feeding that poison. Do you know what I mean? A hundred percent. No, I would rather the children grow up with my support and knowing that they can come to a point of forgiveness or the terrible behavior happening in another home rather than trying to stop them from having any access to that.
Yeah, because that will then create a poisonous relationship for me. I will have denied them that opportunity. Yeah. Yeah. So it's a [00:26:00] bit complex. I'm not sure that I've
Kristi: really articulated. No, no, you have. And what comes to mind with that is again, our responsibility to and for. So we're responsible for our children's safety and well being in our home, but we're not responsible to stop what's happening in that other home.
Because again, we can only do as much as we can. And. From experience, from my experience in my policing career, like you just said, if you create that loving, nurturing home, that you at least are protecting them from any negativity on the other side. And they are going to have that. They, there is a sense of balance and that's the world in general, isn't there?
There's always that negativity. That's always that toxicity somewhere.
Becca: You can't protect them at all.
Kristi: You cannot. So, yeah, it's really important to have that safe, nurturing, balanced home where you can.
Becca: And what's interesting is, just that language you're using around safe, and I've been using it, safe and nurturing home.
Actually, boundaries are really [00:27:00] important too. So the child might not feel that this is nurturing because you're creating boundaries for them that are like, this is a strict home, this isn't
Kristi: sheet. Yeah, but they come back and thank you. Well, I, I do come back and thank you. Like I know children who, I know adults who were like, my parents, I can't believe they let me do some of the things like where they checked out or they were going through something and they checked out.
Right. And they're, they're dating paid me
Becca: off. Right. Or they, they paid you off with big, expensive holidays and iPads and whatever. And
Kristi: then they, and then they look at me. No. And then they look back on their childhood and they go. Oh, actually, like I would have preferred the, the, the protective parent, the responsible parent.
I wish my parents had a cared more like they see that as actually a form of neglect. And it is, there's, there's a term that's been coined now called affluent neglect and affluent neglect is, is those holidays, those iPads, those everything, and just giving them everything. [00:28:00] And you're actually neglecting their basic needs of You know, protection, support, love, and affection.
Becca: It's a really interesting song you've reminded me of. It's called Super Rich Kids. Oh, I haven't heard it. It's a really interesting song. It's like the super rich kids and like the maid is around, but the maid doesn't care. And so they're all just smoking too much weed and doing whatever they're allowed to.
And they just, the parents have checked out, like you say.
Kristi: Um, and they check out for a reason. I mean, they're generally parents check out because they are struggling or parenting and parenting a certain age is where they were neglected. So, I'm very cautious right now at, in my own relationship with my own family, and it is struggling.
I am struggling with it because at this age where my daughter is, is when I was neglected. And so it's actually raising its head and, you know, I, I'm, you know, I actually have to apologize sometimes. I'm like, I'm so sorry, I'm like not acting how I think I should act. Like it's really
Becca: interesting that [00:29:00] we have to parent ourselves as we go.
Through, I've been having really interesting conversations with my 11 year old daughter, which is, you know, I want her to learn something. So I've been trying to teach her something and she's been resistant about it. And it's about like just body love and, you know, respect and caring for yourself and whatever.
And she's been really resistant. Like, mom, I don't need this. Can we stop? And I. I acknowledged at one point, I shared with her, I think the reason this is important for you to know this and learn this is because I didn't, and I want for myself for my 11 year old self, what a powerful, like sharing that was for her to hear me say that.
And it was just such a powerful insight for me to realize it. Yeah. I feel like the same thing is happening with you and your daughter now, right? We are parents. Yeah. In a place where we didn't get to be parented.
Kristi: Yeah, a hundred percent. And one thing I do want to mention to anyone listening is if you have been through [00:30:00] your own trauma at a certain age when you were little, quite often our own children trigger that trauma to come back up, whether it's repressed or there's something going on.
If you are, and you might all of a sudden go, I'm like, why am I all of a sudden losing my shit at my kids and why am I all of a sudden really emotional? And why is this happening? If you, if you, where is this coming from? Like, I don't know why I feel like all the wheels are falling off right now. I don't have control, but.
It's generally because what happens is, is when our children get to the same age we were when we had a traumatic experience or maybe some neglect or some abuse, it triggers that and that brings it back up to the surface. And like you just said, it generally means we have to go and get, seek help, re parent, give us ourselves the support that we needed at that age.
So. That's why I want to bring that up because that's very, very common and a lot of people aren't aware of that. And it's only through my own experiences and my own research that I [00:31:00] realized that this is very, very common. Yeah. And, and it might be, you know, and getting back to separation and divorce. Say your parents were a certain age, uh, you were a certain age when your parents separated and your kids get to that age and all of a sudden you're like, that's it.
I'm done. Yeah. My relationship
Becca: is
Kristi: shit. I want out, you know, you might've been fine. And all of a sudden you, you know, like the human brain, the human body, the human psychology is a really interesting space. I am not a psych. I know. And I'm not a psychologist at all. I am a, I'm a massive Observer of human behavior though, and it's one of the things that I have seen in myself and others.
So I noticed these things and that's why I wanted to bring that up. But what kind of resources are out there for anyone who's looking? Because again, I get asked all the time. I don't know what to do. I've got, I'm struggling. I'm, I don't know how to, and it is really hard because my specialty is one specialty and I don't have all of the answers.
So, [00:32:00] you know, where do you send people? You've already mentioned divorce, like getting some advice from a lawyer, even just preliminary advice, and then potentially seeking out mediation. Is there any other services you suggest?
Becca: Not necessarily. I do think it's important to create.
Your support network very carefully. And by that support network, I mean, you can't expect your friends to be the people you always go to and complain about, right? Again, I've got a podcast episode about carefully curating your support crew. So please, if, if this is where you're at, go and have a listen to that, but we need to be careful who we share information with, right.
Conscious of that. It can't be your best male friend who happens to be your exes, you know, high school, right. You can't necessarily talk to your family as openly as you would like to, because they are also healing from this relationship. Yeah. Right. This relationship breakup. They have likely invested [00:33:00] in your ex husband as a son, and they're going to be grieving their relationship too.
So they're not necessarily your best support network. Yeah. And I'm being meant to think through as well. What do I need from different people and being free to articulate that. So really thinking through, I'm having a tough time and this is going to be really hard. People ask me, you know, how can they help?
Have some answers for them. Don't just say, Oh, I actually say it would be really helpful for me if you could just drop around some food on a Thursday because I pick
Kristi: up by the end of the week. Yeah.
Becca: Right. That's the day that I take the kids and they're always a bit discombobulated like that would be really helpful.
I don't know if that's very helpful, but I
Kristi: could add something to that if you like. I think also one of the things again, like I can only give my experience and this was something that I was a junior constable at the time when I did separate with my husband and I had an inspector actually say, [00:34:00] Hey Christy, I just wanted to check in with you.
Are you okay? First time ever that anyone did that. And I said, actually I've separated from my husband. And he was like, Oh. Well, can I give you some advice? And I was like, sure. And he said exactly what you said. He said, be very mindful of who you share this with because he said, when I first separated with my first wife, I lost all my friends.
And he said, and you know, if, for instance, you decide, you know, if you, it will come, there will be people who, who take sides, there will be people who disappear off the face of the earth. Because when you did, when, when someone separates, especially if you're close, you start looking at your own internally, looking at your own relationships and your own problems.
And if you've gone and and it doesn't matter if you're the. You know, male, female, husband, wife, partner, partner, whatever, initiator, or the person who's, you know, whatever it's mutual, he said, people make split second, second decisions on what you say, and then they take [00:35:00] that and they use that as an, as their impression of you and their, and then if you decide to get back together.
They will then think that you shouldn't, and people will distance that he goes, you'll lose friends because they distance themselves from it and they don't want to be around it. And I did have that happen. I lost lots of friends.
Becca: Yeah, it's absolutely true. You do have to be really careful who you speak to and who you share your story with.
That's one of the questions in this separation thing. Like, how do you talk to friends and family about what's going on? And it's really hard. It is really hard. And I remember when my mom was saying to me I think I was even pre married. I must have been really, really young. And she'd say divorce is catching.
Isn't that fascinating? And so what she meant by that was, you know, if It is, it can be catching. And I think that's part of the reason why people don't, they, they do distance themselves from somebody going through separation because they don't want to catch this thing. And the reason it [00:36:00] is kind of catching is because it does make people reflect on, Oh shit.
If I thought they had a great relationship and if they think separation's the answer, maybe I do need to reflect on what's going on in my relationship. They see people moving on really quickly and they think, Oh my God, that's so much nicer than what I've got. I want that too.
Kristi: I know. And I had someone say to me years ago, like cause you know, like one, you know, it's always lovely when people feel like that, that fresh feeling in a new relationship, that excitement.
Right. And some people are addicted to that feeling. And then when that, when it all dies down in a relationship when it all dies down in a relationship, they like. Oh, I, I miss that. I miss that. And one of my sayings is, is the grass is greener where you water it. Right. But going back to that friendship thing I think it's really important also, it's like similar to when you talk to your kids about your relationship and what's going on and, you know, you've got to be really mindful of what you're sharing and, and, you know, trust only the [00:37:00] very, the, the people who have the open, open minded, open hearted you know, I know that My father in law was really angry at me when I left my husband for, and he was, he actually was really hurt me with some of the things he said, and I should never have called him because I was worried about my husband at the time he wasn't coping.
And I thought dad looking after son, but I really should have rung my mother in law because she was the best, but you know, like it was, it's, it's interesting. And, and that was a lesson I learned. So I think it's good that you share that as well, that, you know, be careful who you share with. Definitely.
Becca: Yeah.
And support crew and maybe let them know that they are part of your support crew. Yes. Carefully. Don't abuse that. Also need to over rely on friends. Like you're my go to girl about this divorce. She might not want to be that person for you. So, you know, create some boundaries around
Kristi: that. I think that's really important.
And you know, [00:38:00] get a divorce coach, get someone, get someone who really is there to support you. That's what I, when you were explaining your job and when I was thinking at the start, I was thinking, Oh, you're like the best friend that hold your hand through this. I'm like a
Becca: doula for divorce, right? So the divorce, the divorce doula, I get you through it with support.
Actually, I don't stop people from hitting their rock bottom. And
Kristi: that's really, it's really important.
Becca: It's really hard because people come to me and they're, sometimes they're just so broken and so hurt and in so much pain, I don't stop them from feeling that pain, but I give them company and sit with them in it.
You
Kristi: have to though, you have to go bottom. Otherwise you can't come back up. Exactly.
Becca: Cause that's where the growth comes from. Yeah, if I was to stop that from happening, if I try to, you know, stop you from feeling the pain, then there won't be growth, there won't be change, but I can give company through it and support.
Kristi: So what I've got from this conversation is that it's really [00:39:00] important to Enter a separation or divorce with some idea of what it's going to take to get through it because a lot of people just do it.
And then it, and then, oh, shit, it's all falling apart. The wheels are falling off. Everything's happening. But by having some strategy and some plan and to identify what actually, the steps, there's steps to it, right? There's a grieving process. It's a great expression,
Becca: which is Failing to plan is planning to fail.
Right? So if you can imagine the best case scenario for your family, and if you can align that with your ex, you have got such a good chance of getting there. Yeah.
Kristi: I mean, we haven't touched on any of the, the really stressful stuff. Like, you know, if you aren't getting along and it's all, all the wheels have fallen off, but like, that's probably another podcast episode, but you know, if we can go into it with an open mind, open heart, and just realize that the, the main priority is to get our children through it safe [00:40:00] and as parents, safe, loving parents both of you.
Yeah. They will be okay. They'll probably go, thank God that's over because I couldn't sleep at night worrying about my parents because they were stressing me out. Yeah. Yeah. And, and it's not, it's okay to admit that. Yeah. Thank you so much. before I go, and I apologize because I'm throwing this on you.
This is a question I ask everyone at the end of my podcast. So. When I was writing my book, I always said if parents knew what I knew, they would do things differently. And usually this question gets asked throughout the podcast, but you never know. Some people throw things out there. If you, if parents knew what you knew what would they do differently?
Becca: If parents knew what I knew, what would they do differently? I think they do a lot more internal reflection, a lot more getting to know yourself and why you do the things you do, because then you'll be triggered far less easily.
If you can understand that, because when you're triggered, you react in a, in a way that is usually outside of integrity, right? You [00:41:00] behave in a way that's reactionary rather than thought through, but if you can really know yourself and understand what triggers you, you can observe that and stop. Behaving like a dick.
Kristi: Mm. Yeah. And I 1, 000 percent agree with that because I definitely have been triggered in the past and I've acted out of integrity and sometimes you go, why did I do that? Why did I say that? Why would, you know, if I had to just taken a deep breath but generally it triggers because there's something unhealed
You feeling some unresolved, that's not about the other
Becca: person. And that's right. Somebody else has said something and your reaction, you blame on them. It's not about them. It's about what's happening with you. And that's what I think is really important. The other, the other thing would be. Find resilience techniques that work for you, like a basket full of them, like give yourself all of the ways to stop yourself from being triggered and learn from someone like me.
You know, [00:42:00] get onto my free resources or whatever, but find those techniques that are going to stop you from being triggered. Yeah. Got some time to behave.
Kristi: And that doesn't include drinking copious amounts of alcohol because I tried that, it didn't work. I don't drink at all anymore, but yeah, that is not a, I mean, it helps.
To take off the stress, but it's not a, not a coping mechanism. Um, no, thanks Becca. I really appreciate this podcast. And if you know, if people looking for more help and, and looking for more, more advice, you've got free resources, do you just want to put in there your website and where they can follow you?
The best way to find
Becca: me would be either on Instagram. So I do divorce, right? My website do divorce, right. com. Um, you can book in a 30 minute free discovery call. I've got an online program, to go through, to find those resilience techniques and to understand yourself better. Um, I'll be launching a membership soon.
I know that's exciting. It'll be the most positive divorce place on the planet, right?
Kristi: Well, it'll just be a [00:43:00] support group, won't it? But the sad thing about support groups that you never know is that once the divorce is over and they're moved on. But that's what you want. You want them to
Becca: leave. Exactly.
I'm going to throw parties when people leave.
Kristi: I'm excited for that. That is so exciting. Oh, it's you're right. It's like you're a midwife doula that you're helping. And we need more stuff like this to be able to turn to because it can be very lonely. This process can be very lonely. I remember feeling so alone for at least six months because you don't want to talk to certain people about this stuff.
You, you know, you're stuck at home with your children or child. You're with your own thoughts, you're struggling. Most of the time, I think there's some form of depression process and, and grieving process that you're going through. So yeah. Someone like you would have made my life so much easier, but I mean great outcome still happy and married and still in love, but you know, you never, you never know.
That could be [00:44:00] the process that someone else goes through. So thank you again, Becca. I really appreciate it. And, um, I will put everything that you've said and any resources that you mentioned in the show notes.
you for listening to this podcast episode. Education empowers children and empowers parents and education prevents abuse. That is why I'm here and that is why you are here. So thank you. If you want any further information or support, follow me on social media, either under Christy McPhee. KAU social media accounts.
I'll put the links in the show notes. You can also purchase a signed copy of my book Operation Kids Safe via the [email protected]. Also, on my website is a free ebook titled 10 Tips to Keep Your Kids Safe from Abuse. and self paced courses for parents to help you in your journey of child abuse prevention.
Don't forget to join our free Facebook group called [00:45:00] Operation KidSafe Parenting Group. Please see the show notes for any extra information, links and help should you be looking for extra support. Thank you once again for giving a shit about preventing child sexual abuse. See you next time.
