Ep 8 Glen Fisher podcast
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Kristi: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the CAPE podcast. CAPE standing for the Child Abuse Prevention and Education podcast. My name is Christy McVie and I am an ex West Australian police officer who spent 10 years with the police where I was trained as a specialist child interviewer and a child abuse detective. This podcast is all about sharing what I learned, saw and knew whilst investigating child sexual abuse in the police force.
It is also about sharing the knowledge that I gained in that time that helped me with my own parenting of my then two year old daughter. My mission is to help share my knowledge and to help you in your role as parents to keep your kids safe along with guest experts in the field of child abuse prevention and education, both in person and online.
Thank you so much for joining in on the fight to prevent child sexual abuse. Your kids will thank you for it.
Welcome back to the Cape Podcast. I'm really excited to be talking with Glenn Fisher today. Glenn and I, I think we met on TikTok, Glenn, [00:01:00] I think.
Glen: Yeah, absolutely. I reached out to you once when you, I can't remember what it was, you put a post up and then I said, Oh, we need to have a talk sometime. Yeah. And
Kristi: we've, and we've been meaning to do this podcast episode for a long time.
I've been on Glenn's podcast. , we've been friends for a while now. I may, might, might've been over a year. And we've got mutual friends and we're in the same community of survivors and advocates. So yeah, it's really exciting to finally catch up with you on this Saturday. You know, advocacy and this what we do in this industry, in this space, it's never ending.
It's always, we're always on, we're always trying to help people. And we were just talking then, and we'll talk more about it in the podcast episode about the, the toll it can take in and how we need to set boundaries sometimes to be able to take a break from this from helping people because we tend to just want to help everyone all the time and it, it takes its toll.
So. We'll talk about that during the episode, but Glenn I can't I couldn't share [00:02:00] your story as well as you can. So I'd really love it for you to tell the listeners about, basically about everything that you talk about on your TikToks, on your podcast, on your, about your life.
Glen: Yeah, well, for those that know, don't know, my name is Glenn Fisher.
I'm the author of the book Predators Paradise. Yeah, so, I mean, I start my life, you know, in a home full of violence. My mum's an alcoholic, schizophrenic, a drug addict, and my dad, you know, is a predator. And by the age of seven, I've been removed from docks, you know 22 times, and my dad ends up going to prison.
As you know, like I, I get sexually abused in the family home by an uncle. And and then I go into institutions where I'm abused again. And then they put me into foster care. And to this day, I still can't comprehend how I end up in this house, but I end up in a house where two men have got prior convictions for a sexual assault.
And and I'm placed in the back bedroom with three men and, and myself in bunks. I at about 13 or 14, I start [00:03:00] running away. It was actually about 12, sorry, 12 year old. I start running away from home and I go to places like Derek again, as I said, the abuse continues. It's bad. It's around about 13, nearly 14, where I leave foster care and go back to my mother's house.
And my mother actually kicks me out when she gets to Wyala, South Australia. Puts me on a bus with my brother back to Sydney. And as I get off the bus in Sydney my dad's there and my brother and I are walking behind my dad. And my dad turns around and says to me, Where do you think you're going?
You're not coming back with me. You're not, you know, F off was the words he used. I remember sitting at a bus terminal on Oxford Street at that age kind of petrified like I've got nowhere to go, literally nowhere to go, you know, and this man comes up and sits next to me, his name's Terry, Terry the Butcher, and he tries to get me back to his house and I end up escaping from him and going back to foster care, and the same day I get there the next morning they put me on a train with five bucks and send me to a refuge in King's Cross.
And yeah, my journey in the King's Cross, people know that's what I mainly talk about on my podcast. When I arrive on the streets of the cross, in my little head I believe this is it, I'm my own [00:04:00] little man, no one's going to tell me what to do anymore, no one's going to abuse me anymore. But I didn't know that I was walking out of the pod and literally into the fire.
You know, King's Cross, the reason I called the book a predator's paradise is because that's exactly what it was. You know, I hung around a whole lot of street kids at the start, sleeping in squats, sleeping in the park, sleeping all over the place, and, and there was just literally predators everywhere preying on me.
I end up moving in with a predator named David Willett, and after a heinous big fight on the streets, where I'm actually frightened by the level of violence that I saw. And then I end up moving into this refuge, and as you know, the refuge, it was run by a former prime minister, it was run by a judge, it was run by five men who were actually pedophiles, a woman who's complicit in that abuse, and it had seven judges on the board.
And I've always carried a lot of guilt because when I moved into this refuge I was manipulated so easily when the guy that runs the place, Simon, he says to me, Oh, you're such a all the kids love you, they all follow you, look at the way, you know, everyone follows you, you're so beautiful, all these things, you know, and what people don't understand is [00:05:00] that my life was pre groomed before I got to the cross.
And I know that's hard for people to comprehend, but When you have a child that's been violence their whole life, had violence their whole life, sexual abuse, drug addiction, and no kind of love or anything in their life, when they get to the cross and you hear these people start showing that love to you, it makes you so susceptible to these men's advances.
And my, my friends all move into the refuge with me and and for the next, you know, from 82 right till August 83, I go through abuse from all these guys and the refuge ends up closing and my girlfriend, Linda, she was murdered. And which literally broke my heart, and after she was murdered, I remember confronting the two men that run the refuge, because by now I had worked out what had happened, you know, and I said, one day I'm going to tell the world what you've done.
I said, one day I'm going to hold you guys accountable, and one day I'm going to write a book. It probably would have just been an idle threat, Christy, but what he actually said to me is what stayed in my head for the next 35 years. He said, you're illiterate, you can't read and write, how are you going to write a book?
And he [00:06:00] said, you're a heroin addict, he said, you'll probably be dead by the age of 21. And sadly, I watched this friend after friend after friend died. And and I did, I put needles in my arms for the next 35 years, which made me, made it hurt near impossible. Just something I want to go back to, when I was at the refuge, The judge that founded the place, right, he actually was made aware of my abuse, right, in January of 1983.
So a guy named David Leary, who owns a refuge called the Cummins Center in Paddington, approaches the judge and a general, there's actually a general on the board as well, and he says, the kids are being abused in this refuge. So he, these two men call Simon Davies, the CEO of The Refuge, into their office and they say you can no longer live at The Refuge, nor be the CEO.
But that's literally all the action they take, right? Simon does continue to live there. He does continue to do the work. And and they fail to report these crimes, you know, to anyone. They literally don't do anything. So for the next eight months, I'm being abused continually from January to August, but where it gets really insane was in August of 83, the police raid this house and [00:07:00] take all of us kids to an institution, right?
Because they, they couldn't get us out of the refuge, even though they had all left, us kids wouldn't leave. And the place they take us to is a place called Bajura, which is the courthouse being run by the judge that opened the refuge. Like, talk about a way to contain us, right? And anyway, then by that court, I'm put into the custody of my key abuser, Simon Davies.
The part of my story that is kind of a miracle, really, is one that I survived, like, you know, 13 overdoses by the age of 19, I go in and out of jail, I'm on methadone pills and that for the rest, you know, for a big portion of my life, right up to my early 2010, but in 1996, I go forward to the Withdrawal Commission, I give evidence, I put two men in jail there, and I speak up about the police corruption around protecting abusers.
And and then in 2012, I give another statement and I wear a wire on another abuser, so that's my third one I take down, Grant Morris, so I've taken out now, Paul Jones, Ken Fogarty and Grant Morris. And then they put out a red notice to take out [00:08:00] Simon Davies and Richard West. I give evidence again at the Royal Commission Institutional Abuse in 2015.
And then in 2019 Simon Davies arrested in the Netherlands. And what happens then is that Simon Davies, he handed himself in the Netherlands because he knew that they have what's called the Statute of Limitation laws over in that country. There was four people that have made allegations against him, 18 charges.
By the time they brought him back from the Netherlands, two of those victims had no charges against him. So he managed to negate two of those victims altogether and he took out 13 of the 18 charges, which means only five are left. But I did manage to convict him he got 10 years in jail, and I, I felt such a sense of pride that day, because the first two sentences were 18 months for Paul Jones, 18 months for Ken Fogarty, 2 years, 8 months for Grant Morris, who abused multiple kids, these people, like multiple children, and then Simon Davies, and the funniest part about the story is that he hid for so long that the laws changed.
And when the laws changed, what happened was that a new laws came out where [00:09:00] historical abuse was sentenced under new laws. So he was the first high profile person sentenced under the new laws and got the 10 year sentence. So that's kind of a very condensed version of my story in a kind of nutshell.
Kristi: Wow.
I mean, I know parts of your story, but Glenn, I know that you know, The, the abuse comes at a great cost. You know, you talk about the fact that, you know, you've had your, you know, you're recovering an addict. You're, you've got all of this trauma. You've got all of this stuff. And here you are at the end of the day.
Advocating and sharing and you wrote that book and you took them to court and you did it all and, you know, that takes such courage and bravery. At what point did you, I mean, you know, I come from a family of addicts and I come from a family of, you know, of people who have their own trauma and, and, and I know sometimes you never get out of it, like it's, it's, [00:10:00] it's, it's like a, a cyclone in your brain, you can never find a way out.
What was the turning point for you? Where, where did you, I mean, you obviously were a strong, strong willed young person because Yeah, I've
Glen: always been resilient. Sorry, you know, so I'll go backwards and I'll say this much. Like when I first picked up heroin, I remember taking the heroin. And I remember it was literally like it shut all the voices off in my head.
You know, you're talking about the effects. I am an incredibly emotional person. It's, it's affected me in every relationship I've ever had in my life, be it family, lover, whatever it is. It affects every way of my life. I have really bad trauma, really bad PTSD. I have really bad depression. I jump all the time.
Even as a kid, people used to walk up and do this, just joking. And I used to jump out of my skin. But the turning point for me was in 2009 when DOCS walked into my life. I made a promise when I was a kid I'd never drink alcohol and I would never let dogs touch my kids. And here I was as a heroin addict.
See, after I had to go to court over and over and over again, I started picking up [00:11:00] heroin again. I was on methadone and containing it, and my addiction just kept getting rampant. So much so that it was infecting my family. And DOCS walked into my life, and I realised that that was the catalyst for change.
So I went into rehab in 2009 in a place called Ika, and I was there for almost 12 months. Unfortunately for me, I caught, I had cancer. I didn't know that, but I, I kept going down and down and down in weight and know kind of something's not right with this guy. And it turns out I had two forms of cancer, atypical pattern, follicular and Pia atypical pattern in follicular and pappel cancer, which was thyroid cancer.
I had five nodules in my neck so they had to take that out. I also had hepatitis C that I caught while at the refuge, and you know, in my drug addiction days. But yeah, it was then that when I went through all of that and I did a bit of counselling while I was in there, I started doing some sexual assault counselling.
And I started realising the correlation between my trauma and my addiction. I started to realise that my addiction wasn't the problem. The problem was that I wasn't coping with life on life's terms. You know, I was reliving my past in my head. It was like every day I would [00:12:00] get up, Christy, I press a button in my head and it's like a cassette tape starts again and I'm replaying the death of all my friends, my girlfriend, I'm replaying all the overdoses, I'm replacing all the abuses and like I was getting horrific, horrific dreams.
Like I just every day I'd wake up and I would just, you know, flashing and I just couldn't stop it. And and I realized that once I stopped using and I got some clean time, clarity started to come into my head. You know, I started to get some clarity and I started to realize, I want to do something about this.
There are so many men out there and women out there that are really hurting. And and if I can do something to inspire other people, and, and, and I also had this unyielding, I don't know if that's the right word, desire to get justice. I made a promise and I meant to fucking keep it. And sorry for swearing, but I was sorry for swearing.
Kristi: No, it's more than, more
Glen: than okay. Yeah.
Kristi: I know. And, you know, in my experience in the police as a detective I saw men especially, but women and men who, you know, had not come to terms or grips with their [00:13:00] trauma and, you know, they were you know, then it bleeds onto your family. Like, any trauma that you don't work to heal, and you're never going to heal everything, but you can do your best.
Any trauma you don't face and try to heal is going to bleed onto your family. And we don't, we don't have our kids and go, Hey you know I, I want you to feel as shitty as I do, or I don't want you to, you know, but we inadvertently and subconsciously sometimes we'll put it onto them. And, you know, we see domestic violence and we see drug addiction and alcohol addiction, that's all coping mechanisms.
Because we haven't dealt with what's happened.
Glen: Yeah, addiction, trauma, all these things we're talking about are generational, right? And I mean, my mother went through this trauma, her family, and it passes on, right? And, and I was at a, a, a crossroad where I could watch this play out again and watch my children become drug addicts, my children go onto the streets, my children go through this stuff, or I could take stock about it and do something [00:14:00] about it.
And I loved being a dad. And look, I did everything wrong for the first nine years, I'll tell you now. I mean, you know, I just, I loved them and did the best I knew how to do. But how does a father parent when they've never seen what a parent looks like? How does a person love someone if they've never seen what love looked like, you know?
And luckily for me, you know, that, that turned around, I have beautiful children, beautiful relationship with them today, you know, but there's still parts to that, that are in, in healing process, there always will be, you know, but I, I, I wanted to stop the generational trauma continuing on in my family.
I just, you know, I just didn't want to see that. And luckily for me, I don't know how, but my, my five kids are absolute miracles. They're brilliant, beautiful children. And but that wouldn't have been the way, but if we didn't take stock, if we didn't go to rehab and do something about it. And there's, like you said a second ago, there is so many people out there that don't understand, hurt people hurt people.
And hurt people don't deliberately hurt people sometimes. I'm not saying that we go out of our way to hurt people. It's just the natural progression. As you were saying, it bleeds out onto everyone else. And and, and the [00:15:00] more you've been hurt, the more you think everything's an injustice. So one little thing goes wrong in your life and it's like all of that stuff compacts into one and you just go boom, you know?
And for me, mine played out in violence with men. So what I was doing was it wasn't violent in the home. I was violent on the street. So every time I'd see someone get bullied, stood over, I was like, not on my fucking watch. And rather than just stepping in and trying to be a mediator, I met aggression with violence.
And it was because. And I actually had a counsellor sit down and said to me, Glenn, you don't even understand what you're doing. You're justifying your violence. By being the good guy, by jumping into the rescue, so you're putting on your life jacket, you're running to the rescue to help people, but you're still meeting it with violence, you know, and and that was an eye opener for me, because I didn't understand that even though I didn't, I, my, everyone knew that, that's what I was, don't know, Glenn will pop off, you know, he's, he's tacked, and and the truth of it all, like the real truth is, I was this frightened little boy inside a man's body.
And I still am to this day, it's like I am riddled with fear, and it's [00:16:00] something I'm mindful of, something I'm conscious of, and I have to work on constantly. You know, I'm fear of being alone, I'm fear of being rejected, I'm fear of, there's so many fears in my life that you know, fear of failure, fear of letting people down.
Even in the advocacy work I do now, I sometimes can put so much pressure on myself when people reach out to me. where I've actually had to set boundaries because as you were talking about earlier, people actually dump on you and they don't understand. I'm still trying to cope and and learn to live myself.
And so I always say to people I'm about inspiring others, about sharing the truth of my journey, fighting for justice, helping homeless, but I'm not a counsellor because I think it's a crossing a line if I go to that, try and counsel people when I'm still in the process of healing myself.
Kristi: Yeah, and that'll be a never ending healing process because we're here, we'll always be learning and healing until we, we're no longer here.
There's so much in your story and you know, there's, unfortunately, I don't know, I think I [00:17:00] said this to you when we first chatted, it's almost like, once you, once you become a victim of, especially of any kind of neglect, abuse child sexual abuse, it's almost like predators can see that, like it's like a scarlet letter or like a mark on you, and predators know to prey on you, and You made a really interesting point that, you know, you had all of this abuse and it's like a, it's like a dam wall, right?
So it's, it's there and it's, things are piling up behind the dam wall and then all of a sudden it just tips over. But you were mentioning about how you got to that home in King's Cross and they were like, love bombing you. And for anyone who doesn't know what love bombing is, love bombing is where, you know, you praise and love and, and make that person who is you know, you're grooming, make them feel so special.
That they feel indebted to you and then it enables the abuse to start and happen or it enables them to [00:18:00] be, keep it a secret, et cetera. So those men were grooming you in order to be able to abuse you. And and when you're a child who's gone years and years and years with neglect and abuse and has had no love and affection, it's really easy.
Yeah. For them to do that.
Glen: One of the things that I talk about on some of my videos is that it's important as parents today that we make sure we fill the voids in our children so that a predator doesn't come in and fill that void. Because as you just pointed out a second ago, predators are apt at finding what that missing void is, whether it be love, whether it be financial.
And there's even parents out there like, they're good mums, right? Say there's a single mum or single dad, they work their bloody hearts out. They're working six days a week. And they're giving their child everything they need, but the one thing they're not giving them, which I think is the most important thing, is time.
You know, and sometimes they, and it's not deliberate, they just don't realize that that's what they're missing. And like I said, I believe I was pre groomed. I mean, I'm not talking about in a sense where I was not given the love, where I was consistently [00:19:00] rejected. The words that were said to me kept, you know, they were constantly negative.
There was never any positive input, it was always negative. So by the time I landed on the streets and I landed into this refuge, Like you said, they love bombing. They're telling me how intelligent I am, how talented I am, how good looking I am, how smart I am, how the other kids warn to me. And like, as pathetic as it sounds, it's It was filling all those voids, you know, and then, and then they enabled me, like, I was allowed to live there with my girlfriend, sleep in the same bed, I was allowed to use drugs and drink, I was living right near the crossroads, we got arrested, they come and got us, you know, all these things that I was missing just to stay together in a little unit of friends that I'd never had in my life.
I'd never been anywhere long enough to acquire a group of friends like I did then. And to watch them die one by one, you know, like, was just fucking gut wrenching. It really was, you know, like suiciding, you know, people overdosing, people murdered. And it, it's just so wrong because they had an opportunity to change lives.
Instead, what they did was they in a positive way, but they changed it in an absolute [00:20:00] dramatic way and coming out the other side. I also feel indebted Katie. Sorry, Christie. I feel indebted to to them. Like I, I'm the one that's come out the other side and I feel like I need to not just be my voice.
I need to be their voice. You know, to let people know because, you know, there are so many kids that died nameless on the streets of the cross and their stories are never going to be told and and I feel like I owe that. And the other thing I feel really strongly about is that there are so many men and women, but I want to talk specifically to men who have been pre programmed as children.
Don't feel, don't cry, don't dob, all this stuff that's ingrained into us, right? So by the time we get to adults, We're like, I can't fucking speak to anyone. I don't want anyone to know I've been through sexual abuse. You know, there's such this heavy stigma attached to it. And I, I just want to say to them, and this is really important, there is absolute power in being vulnerable.
When you start to share this shit out, you start the healing process. Because for me, it was, that's what was that explosion. The reason all this violence and stuff that was happening in my childhood or in my early teens was happening was because I [00:21:00] didn't know how to express. I, I didn't know how to vent, how to let this stuff out, and and that secrets keep us sick, and that was, that epitomizes my story, really.
Kristi: Yeah, exactly, and you're so right, you know, In my experience investigating historical child sexual abuse, and it was in response to the Royal Commission, I spoke to so many men, I spoke to a lot of men who had been through abuse, and that in, you know, 30 plus years had passed, they had they had families, but they were they no longer saw their families or they were in jail or they were dealing with drug addiction because it does keep you sick and, and sickness can be anything like it can be drug addiction.
It can be, you know, being violent because you have bottled it all up and it's got nowhere to go. And so you, you explode outwards to the people you love the most. But also with regards to, you know, the fact that, you know, We, we, the statistics, I mean, in Australia, the statistics are one in three girls, one in [00:22:00] five boys right now.
It's probably more, but men, it's probably more men and it's men generally hurting men or boys, men hurting boys. It's, it's very, and you did mention a female in that, in that case, and she enabled and probably facilitated the abuse. And you know, there was, there is a lot of that going on as well, but we need to remember that, you know, young men, young boys, if we don't give them the support and love and, and nurturing, and we allow them to speak up and we allowed them to have feelings and emotions, because they're just feelings, right?
Anger is just a feeling and it's okay to be angry. It's how you, what you do with that anger that is the problem.
Glen: Anger is actually a secondary emotion, you know, it's usually something underlying. When we're angry, there's usually an undercurrent to that. For me, it was fear, and I found that out. Just speaking to that woman, like some people put career ahead of speaking up, you know, they were more interested in furthering their career than they [00:23:00] were about truth.
You're doing the right thing. And I just want to say this because it's really important. I have more content. For those that knew and did nothing than those who actually abused me. See, the ones who abused me, I can put that in a box. But the people that stand by and do nothing are fucking cowards. And, and like, I am, I have so much deep rooted anger towards these people that don't speak up.
It is so important that we educate children to protect each other. We educate others to just say if it's wrong, even if you're wrong about it, better you speak up and be wrong than stay silent. You know what I mean? Because the cost is just too, too too great. You know what I mean?
Kristi: I know and I think I, I think one of the, the reason why we contacted was in the TikTok I said, it's a life sentence for a victim and the, you know, you, you mentioned the sentencing 18 months, 18 months, two years, and then 10 years, even 10 years isn't enough for what that man did to you and to all of those other kids.
You know, it should be life. Because, because the [00:24:00] victim and survivor's life has been forever altered and changed and will never be the same. And it's worse than murder in my opinion. Like this whole thing is worse than murder and I saw the devastation. It just, it never ends for the victim and it's there until they, they are no longer around and yeah.
Glen: And we lose so many men. I mean, the highest statistic of death in young men between 15 and 35 is actually suicide. And I, like, three times, Christy, I literally, two times I literally tried to take my life and another time I was talked out of it. And like, I literally was sitting there one time and I walked inside a church and literally tried to hang myself and another man actually came across and lifted me back up.
I could have died that day because I was unable to process, I, I just sat in a part in my, in so much hurt and so much pain and unable to articulate that, I wasn't able, I, I didn't have the words. You know, and for me it became in writing. I started writing poems and writing and drawing because I didn't have the words within me to articulate what was actually going on.
And now I've [00:25:00] learned, you know, to say, look, you know what? I'm afraid. Like, you know what? I'm really hurt. I'm damaged. I'm broken. All these things. Because only when we start to acknowledge these things do we start the journey towards healing.
Kristi: Yeah, I, I actually had a friend reach out and her father he took his own life only recently about a year and a half ago and it was in response to his abuse as a child and none of the family knew about it until just before he passed because he'd been, he'd been suffering in silence his whole life and we didn't, and Unfortunately, society hasn't done a very good job of supporting any survivor, let alone male survivors of abuse.
And there's this stigma and this, and this pressure to just get on with it, just keep moving, but that's not true. Like, it, you, you said it beautifully at the very beginning, you know you have to share it because the power is in sharing it and it no longer has power over you.
Glen: And unfortunately, a lot of people in the community do a lot of talking on the, [00:26:00] you know, on Depression Day, or what is it, that day when we all talk about depression.
It's okay to
Kristi: be, yeah, R U OK Day, yeah. I know, I, I get a bit annoyed with days like that. And not because they're not important, they raise awareness, but I don't usually post or say anything on those days because I, I feel it's lip service to, and that's just my personal opinion, it's lip service because it's every freaking day.
Glen: What I hate is that people message me on that day and say, Hey Glenn, are you okay? And I'm like, do you know there's 365 days in where I could have really used some love? And you know, there's certain days, can I share something with you? I just really, 'cause we were talking about this and it raised something that happened to me just recently that I just think's really lovely to share.
Quickly interrupting this episode to let you know that Christie has a whole library full of resources to support you. If this podcast hits home for you and you want to learn more about cyber safety, abuse awareness and prevention, and how you can protect your children, head to the link in the show [00:27:00] notes where you can access free downloads, informative guides, and courses relating to these topics.
You can also order Christie's book, Operation KidSafe, a detective's guide to child abuse prevention. If you want to join the fight against child sexual abuse, you can support Chrissy to reach a wider audience by leaving a review on this podcast or sharing it with your community.
Glen: So as you know, I do a lot of videos about stuff and some of them really get a lot views, you know, and recently, I walked into a post office, and you might have seen the video I made about this, and as I'm walking in, I'm met by a young couple and a woman, right, and as I go in, she goes, Oh, are you Glenn?
Glenn from TikTok? I says, Yeah, yeah, that's me. And she goes, Oh, can I please give you a hug? And she get, like, they give, all of them give me a hug and she says, we want to share something with you. And I said, tell me. And they said, my dad. And I won't say anyone's names because I want to have anonymity to share the actual story of what happened.
She says, my dad, we had to leave him a little while ago because he just keeps getting drunk and he gets really violent and angry. Anyway, about three or four weeks ago, we went [00:28:00] up to dad and we showed him, we just put the phone down and said, dad, watch these videos. It hurts my heart when I say it, because it's such a beautiful thing.
But anyway, he watches some of my videos that I've done around the cross, right, and about my abuse. And anyway, later on they take the phone off him. And it took a couple of days, but he comes back and he says, I've been through abuse. And like, he's never told anyone, right? But not only did he go through to admit to his wife and his kids, he got treatment.
So he's now getting treatment for alcoholism. He's now getting treatment through SAMHSA for sexual abuse. And and from all, from all reports, this man is doing fucking phenomenal and it's just, you don't never know who you reach. Yeah, it hurts me too when I talk about it because What it says to me is Glenn, I might get a hundred people reach me in a week that message me But there's another hundred or maybe two hundred more that don't say a word that that are just listening and think you know what?
I fucking need to do something about this. I don't want to sit on the lounge like Glenn did for ten years in depression Feeling sorry for myself. I don't want to put needles in my arm I don't want to be causing damage to the people I love [00:29:00] my children my family my wife I want to do something about it And him taking ownership of that it's just changed four lives, you know, the two children, the wife and him, and I mean I don't know if they're all back together yet, I haven't, I literally haven't seen them since, and every time I go I'm looking out for them, but I haven't seen them, but.
Oh,
Kristi: that's life changing.
Glen: It is life changing. And for me, it just inspired me in a way where it's keep going, Glenn, you're doing something right. You know, and like people see me, you've seen me in TikTok, I can be at my worst and my best. Some days I'm a diamond, some days I'm a stone. I'm an emotional guy, but it's authentic and it's honest.
And people see the authentic in us. They see the honest in us. You know, they see like, I'm I know police, a lot of police from doing all what I've done over the years. And I've seen corruption at its worst back in the day, like, as you know, I know a really bad side of policing. But when I went through my strike force boyd, I met a whole different face to police.
I met men and women who were really dedicated to helping This stopping child [00:30:00] abuse, but their fucking arms are tied, their hands are tied, the rules and regulations that are placed around police, not to mention the burden they've got to carry. I mean, every day they've got to hear these stories, go home and try and solve it.
And you and I both know that it's the hardest cases to prosecute, that there are so many frigging road barriers to prosecuting sexual abuse cases. And, and there's a lot of people out there who are freaking angry. They're like, so I've had people message me and say, Oh, well, you got your cases justice. And I'm like, well, that's not actually true.
There's some of them I got justice for some of them I didn't, but I hear you. I understand what it feels like to not get justice. But what we can't allow it to happen is this, our abuser comes in and abuses us, right? Then what happens is we become our worst abuser. In my story, that became my case. I became my worst abuser for 35 years, putting needles in my arm and just tucking in plodding.
Because I couldn't deal with the trauma, so they come in and wreak havoc, but we wreak havoc for the rest. We've got to not give them the power, we've got to say, you know what, fuck you, you don't have [00:31:00] that power over me anymore. And the minute we take that power back, we get our life back.
Kristi: I'm just going to clap you there.
I, I, I definitely believe everything you just said then, because there, there, of course, there is, uh. Accountability and responsibility where it is required, but at the end of the day, how you. deal with it, how you react and what you do with the rest of your life is, is up to you.
Glen: Absolutely. And the other thing that you've got to understand in life is nobody can do it for you.
I wish, I mean, I wish I could walk into someone's life and just touch hands and say, hey bro, this is what you need to do to get better, but it doesn't work that way. You have to be an active participant in your recovery in whatever that is, alcoholism, addiction, trauma. And, and, and that's the start with getting up and saying, you know what, I'm no longer going to allow this to have power over me and go and seek professional help.
For me, I've learned that I need to keep the mind busy. See, when my, when I sit in my own company, I'm in bad company, if that makes sense. If I [00:32:00] sit there and allow my mind to go down the rabbit hole, the other thing for me is if I start to do that, I'll hug my mom, my dad. And then if I start doing that, I'm like, stop, don't, don't go down the rabbit hole because once we go down the rabbit hole, we can spiral.
And and it's not easy. There's no, it's not an easy path out, but it's possible.
Kristi: Exactly. I mean, I. I know from like, I've got PTSD from the police and, and, you know, childhood trauma, which, and, and one of the things I would like to mention, and I've said this before in other podcast episodes. When it comes to trauma, it doesn't matter if your trauma is you lose your dog and you're your best friend.
It doesn't matter if your trauma is being sexually abused. It doesn't matter. It mean your trauma. You're in a horrific accident. Trauma in the body is trauma and the body does not differentiate trauma. It's just trauma, right? We can't sit and like compare
Glen: my
Kristi: trauma to your trauma to anyone else's trauma because I was just [00:33:00] about to do that.
I was I was about to say look I you know, my childhood, you know Right Compared to what you went through, my childhood wasn't that bad, right? It was a walk, cake walk compared to what you went through. But yet, I still had quite severe trauma in that my, I was neglected emotionally and psychologically. I, you know, I was physically abused.
I was, I actually didn't remember it, but I actually have, was sexually abused by my mum's boyfriend. Partner after she left my dad. I didn't, it was a repressed memory. I didn't even remember it until recently. So it's crazy. Like trauma is trauma and we cannot compare each other's traumas.
Glen: Absolutely, and it's interesting that you said that.
I was literally going to come back to you with something in the exact same stratosphere. So, one of the most common things people say to me when I first start interacting with is, Oh, Glenn, I've been through this. It's not quite what you've been through. Like, I haven't been through anything near what you've been through.
And I'm like, Oh, please don't do that. Your trauma is your trauma, man. And what it and. Like you said, like one [00:34:00] abuse can just have as much of an impact as multiple abuses, you know, I just build up a lot of resilience, it doesn't, just because someone's, don't ever compare your journey to someone else, because what we do then is we think, well, they went through all that, so mine's not so bad, so how dare I feel this, and that, and what you're doing is you're not giving yourself the validation that you need for healing, you know, because trauma impacts us all, and it looks different for every single person, how trauma can, can impact our lives, you know what I mean, and unfortunately, because of trauma, It leads to other trauma with the addictions, with your trauma, you know, whatever that is, you know, so it's yeah, don't ever compare.
It's not comparable. Everyone's is their trauma. And
Kristi: yeah, exactly.
Glen: It does,
Kristi: and it does affect everyone differently. Like for instance, some of my trauma was and neglect was in and psychological stuff was like that I was told I was not good enough and I was useless and I was selfish and I was a bitch.
And there's certain trigger words now that even trigger me today and I'm 43 and you know, thought I've gotten over it. Right. But someone will say it and I'll go like, Oh, and I'll be [00:35:00] at them all the time. I, it's funny that you mentioned violence. I'm an, I'm highly aggressive as well. It's, it's inbuilt into my DNA to fight.
And so it's been a long journey for me to just like, step back and go, you know, what triggered me? Why is that a trigger? And usually I still, still go, you know, go at someone and then I'll come back and apologize. Cause I'm like, I'm so sorry. That was not on you, blah, blah, blah. But and the thing that happened for me was, and I think it might've happened a bit for you, Glenn, is that.
Because of all of that negative you know, negative messaging that I got, I became extremely like high functioning. So I wanted to be the best at everything, people pleasing, perfection. You know, if someone told me I couldn't do anything, I would fucking show them. And, you know, I bought a house at 18 and that was purely because I got told I'd never amount to anything.
And, and then, so I, I get kicked out of home at 15, I buy a house at 18. I ring my parents. Not speaking to them for three years to just to gloat that I bought [00:36:00] a house, you know like I've become a copper at 26 at 27 28 because I was trying to prove to people and Eventually get to a point and recently I just came to a point was like what who the fuck am I trying to prove this?
shit to
Glen: Do you know, it's funny, like, there's a few times now where you've been talking and I've been waiting to say something and in my head as you're talking I'm going, high functioning, high functioning, it's literally the comment I was going to make. So, sometimes for a high functioning survivor, can find it harder to heal than because they don't allow themselves to go back.
Because being someone that's high functioning, we, we, we expect a certain level. I'm not high functioning, I, I, I'm getting to higher functioning. But I definitely don't see in that category, whereas you, you know, you're high functioning education, working as a police officer. So you've got a sort of standard in life that you've had to adhere to.
So you don't have room for crumble, right? How can I crumble when I'm a police officer? And I often wonder about those. I see it all the time where I see somebody tells me they're a survivor, but they're high functioning. And I, and I often think to myself, [00:37:00] you yeah, I just know that for their pathway can be quite difficult because it's, They don't allow themselves to sit back and actually take stock and say, you know what, and of all the things that had an effect on me in my life, and you can think about, you know, the physical violence, the sexual abuse, it's actually the words.
So the words were the most powerful impact on me as a child. My mother and father's words were really cruel and really horrible. And same as in the institutions, they were really horrible by the officers, by other kids, in the schools, you know, like, the words have a lifelong effect on us. Then what happens It can cause like, my problem in life is I'm trying to people please, because I, I'm so desperate to be loved, and I'm talking about now, but in life I'm so desperate for love that I'm almost willing to compromise my own self just to, to fit into someone else so they don't, you know and that's something we need to be very mindful of as trauma survivors that we don't give over ourselves just to be loved because, you know, I get it.
A lot of people who have been starved of love, especially as children, can find themselves [00:38:00] you know, really appealing stuff.
Kristi: That's really interesting. You bring that up because again, and a observation I had when I was a detective police officer is how often, you know people would go from, you know, relationship to relationship, which were mirror images of their, the previous relationship.
They'd be in one violent relationship. Then they'd go to the next violent relationship. It was on. And I used to like contemplate, I was like, why, why do they keep going to like into these relationships? And you just hit the nail on the head because it's, it's because. There's, you know, that little part of you that is just begging and pleading for someone to, to love you the way that you deserve that little person inside is screaming out for, for love and just unconditional love.
And so you'll take it wherever it comes from. It doesn't have to be healthy. It doesn't have to be safe. It just is wherever.
Glen: I often see with women that they often [00:39:00] get themselves really violent men because they want someone to protect them because they've been so, but they don't realise that that violence turns back on them and I often see with men they surround themselves with really powerful women who, who have got that thing missing in them and they end up being the submissive almost in a relationship because It's, it's weird the way our relationships, you know, like abuse, trauma of any kind impacts every area of our lives.
And once we start to bottle it up break it down, I meant to say, and, and analyze it properly you know, we start to find ourselves. Because I, I relate to all of these things. I've seen, I mean growing up on the streets, I've witnessed women, I've removed, I've literally removed women from violent homes, only to see them go to a mall.
I actually remember one woman rang me up one time and I went round and got her out of a violent situation. And her husband tried to attack me the next day at a methadone clinic and He was just a little man, like I just threw him against the wall. But what ends up happening was she goes to another man who actually committed a murder and she ended up going to jail for three years for being complicit in a murder.
She had nothing to do with. It's [00:40:00] just so sad. And yeah, so women like, and men, if you're out there and you've been through trauma I don't want to break people up, but I would say just have a real close look at relationships that who you surround yourself with because if you're surrounding yourself with people who are making you less than, then maybe they're not your people, you know, because You know, you need to find love in yourself and it's hard to do that, you know, like when you haven't been given love, you get so starved and desperate for it and you've got to make sure that you don't compromise yourself to, to, to be loved.
Kristi: Yeah, so, so true and so important. I, I talk about this with my own daughter and I'm sure you've had these conversations with your kids and I'd imagine that your conversations with your kids, they are very open and honest, but I said to my daughter, and I've said it over and over and over again over the years, The people you surround yourself with are the ones that will either make or break you.
So for instance, I mean, there's some. Fancy inspirational speaker that says, you know, you're the sum total of the five people you spend the most time with and, and that's [00:41:00] in, in short, that means that if you're spending time with people who are using drugs, alcohol abusive, that, that don't that talk down to you, that treat you like dirt, well, you're going to be down in the bottom in your net.
You're not going to get out of that situation. When you start surrounding yourself with people who talk you up, who are positive, they want the best for you, they're up there, you know, that's why, that's when you're going to see changes in your life. That's when you're going to have an opportunity to change your life.
And it can be really hard to get out of those situations. I mean, Glenn, you've probably seen that, that in your own life and in your friends lives, unless you make dramatic changes and remove yourself from those situations, you're not going to see the change at all. It's not going to happen.
Glen: You know, and I'm writing another book at the moment called Escaping the Cross, and I'm writing just about that.
You know, as a kid, all my role models were drug dealers, predators, you know, you just don't realize that every person that was in my circle were bad. You know, they were drug dealers or criminals or [00:42:00] you know, all that kind of stuff. And in 2010, when I got outta rehab, one of the smartest things I ever did in my life.
was I removed all that toxic stuff. I, I don't have any drug addict friends now. And I mean, I, as you know, I go to the street and I work with addicts, but it's different. I don't actually surround in my personal life now myself with anything other than positive people because yeah, it's right. And I, and it's really a lesson for parents more than anything, that the children that hang around your children will have more influence on them than you will ever have.
And it's sad, but it's just a reality. So you really need to teach your children who they surround them with. surround themselves with in life will have a huge impact on how their life plays out.
Kristi: And you said it right at the very beginning, you have to fill those voids for your kids. Absolutely. And, you know, I've been through it with my own, my own daughter.
She's, you know, struggled with friendship. She's got ADHD, etc. And she struggles with, you know, understanding people and she's, she's inappropriate at times. And, you know, it's just a, it's just a thing that she's dealing with and she's growing up with, but it makes her [00:43:00] friendships really hard, you know, so I've had to, for a bit now, and it's, it's starting to shift away now, but I've had to fill voids that her friends should have filled.
But in doing that, and, and that might sound really sad, or it might sound really like, oh, you're being one of those parents that are, no, I just had to fill some, some of those holes for her for a while. So that she didn't go and lead, didn't lead her down a path that would lead her to, you know, the bad side of things.
Glen: Absolutely, and that's where that time asset comes in, you know. I say it to people all the time, the greatest asset you can give a child, apart from love, obviously, is your time. You know, because the more time with them, you start to see what those needs are, and those voids that need filling. You know, like it's, it's important and another thing I want to talk about when we get a chance to is about the, the work that we do now and how people they don't know that they're doing a bit like you used the word earlier, trauma dumping, you know, where people like reach out to us and they just like, I'll open up my chat and I'll go like, what the fuck, man?
It's like, it's like a novel. And I read it because I want to be respectful, but there's [00:44:00] also a part of you that's got to set boundaries, you know, in your life when we're doing the stuff that we do, you know, people asking for phone numbers, wanting to meet you, sending you a novel, and it's like, not that we don't want to hear from them, but it's just that I, I'm a real heavy advocate of the right person for the right thing, you know, a specialized trauma counselor for trauma, addiction counselor for trauma, you know, my job's From my perspective is to inspire people with what I've done and what I'm doing, you know, and
Kristi: well also giving hope to people and to see, you know, giving hope and, and you, you said it, you know, you're telling them you're responsible for your healing.
You're responsible for what you do. Like, yes, everything that's happened to you is tragic and traumatic and horrible and it should never have happened. It was not your fault. But you are responsible for what you do with that next and it's, and really you know, the trauma dumping thing, a lot of people don't realize they do it.
They're just so, they're just so desperate for someone to hear them in, in dumping on random [00:45:00] strangers. We see a lot of advocates burn out, don't we? Lots of advocates burn out. Lots of advocates have to step away and stop the end or do something else because so for us as as we fight all of this and we and we share and we help people, we actually have to set up boundaries and everyone should be doing it.
You shouldn't be taking on other people's risk trauma because. It's, and yes, we want to be empathetic. There is, there's a difference between empathy and, and you know, taking it on, because our PTSD, for instance, You know, sometimes I'll get messages, sometimes I'll hear from people, and that will trigger my PTSD, and I don't have any control over that.
Glen: Yeah. One of the things that I hope that I do for people is I want to show people that no matter what we've been through, there is a way out, you know, and that starts with us. We have to be responsible for us doing that, and I've shown people, you know, like no matter what you've been through, including addiction, prison, trauma, abuse.[00:46:00]
There's a way out, but you have to get up and do it, you know, and that's what I hope that I give hope. I inspire people that that it is possible to be done.
Kristi: You are inspiring people and you know, you work so tirelessly at this and you give so much of your energy to, to what you're doing and I mean that little boy in the cross probably never would have expected you at your age now to be doing what you're doing.
He was probably just trying to survive and now here you are, you know, speaking up for other survivors. I think. Ah, I'm in awe of you, Glenn. I'm in awe of you. And I know it's hard to hear sometimes when people speak so positively, I don't receive, when, when people tell me nice things, I don't receive it very well.
So I'm, I'm sure you're like me.
Glen: Oh, that's actually a normal trauma response as well. So we, when someone's mean or evil to us, we know how to respond to that. You and I just meet with aggression because that's our way, fight or flight. Ours is fight, right? But when someone's nice to you as kids, there's always an [00:47:00] agenda attached to nice.
So whenever I hear nice as a child, there's always agenda. What's the agenda? What's the motive? Oh, that's your motive. And you're always, so it's really difficult, as you said, to receive. There's not a, it's not comfortable. I'm getting better at it. I get a lot of people reach out to me now and they say lovely things to me and I, at the first I used to feel like, I used to sit down and go, I'm really not, you know, like they'd say all these things and it's not actually true.
And and start to accept, you know, I actually have got a good heart. You have got a good heart. And it's a good way to someone that's been through what we've been through says, you know what, I want to use this. to change things. I want to be, instead of being a part of the problem, I want to be a part of the solution, you know, and, and I think there's a lot of power in that.
And, and, and I, I feel incredible that I've changed the amount of lives I have. And, and as so do Christy, you know, like you were working in a place where you were somewhat restricted at what you could do. Now you're not limited to what you can say, you know, you've got a you know, that makes sense.
And and, but you've also got that experience behind you. Like I've got that experience behind me. There's nothing beats lived. Experie lived, lived experience, [00:48:00] you know?
Kristi: Yeah. You hit the nail on the head. That was one of our first conversations was like, I, I, when I was in the police, I was, I was so restricted.
Glen: Yeah.
Kristi: It and you know, there are so many amazing police officers doing amazing work. Yeah. They, they work tirelessly and they work so hard to try and do, but they are, like you said, handcuff.
Glen: Yeah. They,
Kristi: they have no, the legislation is the legislation, and the powers that they have are the powers they have, and then the rest is like, and you know, predators and, and child sex offenders, they don't have anyone holding them back.
Glen: No, there's no framework, they, they can work without it, you know, whereas you're working within a framework in the police station, you're limited to what things can be done, they don't have those restrictions, you know.
Kristi: And, and sadly, you know. Sadly, we see people in positions of power, which you've fought against, that, you know, they're in that position of power to be able to prey on not just children, but on anyone that they can prey on and, you know, and, and [00:49:00] I stand for anyone who hurts young children.
You know, my, my advocacy work is in prevention, yours is in, you know, prevention. Speaking up and, and giving survivors a voice and, and showing and sharing hope. I just, you know, just know that if you know someone who is doing something to a young person or is doing the wrong thing, it doesn't matter what position they're in, anyone is capable of anything and you're complicit if you just sit by and let it happen.
Glen: Absolutely. And that's right. Like I said, as a survivor, I have more contempt for those that Didn't do anything. You know, it's just wrong.
Kristi: It does more harm. It does more harm.
Glen: Yeah, absolutely. And if
Kristi: someone had spoken up when you first mentioned it, and you were removed and put in a safe space, then most of the stuff that happened, I mean, it didn't, you still had things happen that were out of your control?
Absolutely. But you tried, you tried to get yourself out of it and nothing happened and, and, you know, it maintains more abuse. So [00:50:00] yeah, I mean, this is such an important conversation and I'm so grateful to you for sharing all of this and, and there's some really big projects coming up for you. So where can people listen to follow you share well not share, please don't go and trauma dump on Glenn, but but you know, where can they follow what you're doing and, and see where you're at.
Glen: Just before I say that, I'll say something before I forget. One of the hardest things about doing what we do is agendas. People that'll come in who are doing other stuff, and some of them will come in with an agenda, you know, and it's like, oh, it's conspiracy stuff, and it's like, man, like, my stuff's true.
Keep me out of all that stuff, you know. But where you can find me is, I'm in a few places, but the most two important ones would be on TikTok, tiger4life, just type in tiger4life66, And and I've got some incredible followings on there and it's really doing a lot. The other one, which is probably the most important one, is I run a page called Predators Paradise on Facebook.
So if you just type in Predators Paradise and at the top of that page you'll see Marikana Fair interviews and all the podcasts that I've been involved with. And and, you know, and I'm [00:51:00] constantly posting on both those pages. So I think they would be the two. And the other most, other one I do is I run a group called page called The Leg Up.
So as you know, Christy, I now go down to the streets myself. Every Tuesday and I reach out to homeless and and I, I just try and get to know their stories and I give them food and gift cards and toiletries and stuff like that. And the other one you want to watch out for is I've just done a documentary called The Rise and Fall of King's Cross, which is going to be aired on Channel 7 in October.
So Yeah, and there's a few other documentaries and stuff coming up, so some big, big stuff in the wind, so you just keep watching our pages and you'll get to see all that stuff.
Kristi: And I'll definitely be sharing when they come up. I'm a big fan of your work and as you know, and we need more people to, to speak up and to share if they feel comfortable.
I, I, I would never pressure anyone to do anything that they're not ready for, and neither would you, and But I, I really am I'm really grateful that, you know, men, especially men who have been through trauma, you know, can have someone like you to be able [00:52:00] to see that it is possible to pull yourself out of it and it is possible to, to heal.
Glen: And I do understand why people do trauma dump to someone like myself, because I know for myself, I was too scared to reach out and speak to people. And I just want to speak to that real quickly, is that, don't have expectations on or around receivership when you do share your journey with someone.
Because it's not always going to be received the way you want it to be. But if a person doesn't receive it with the love that it should, They're not your people, man. They're not your freaking people. And and you'll find like, I was so scared when I came out and shared my journey Christy, and 99 percent of the reception has been beautiful.
Everybody, every now and again, a troll that says horrible things, like they call me different names and I'm just like, What's going on with you bro? You need a hug. You know, and I just, I just move on into the 99.
Kristi: Yeah. One of my last one of my other podcast guests this, this season said the same thing.
She said, be really mindful who you share your story with, especially when it's the first person you [00:53:00] share it with or the second or third, because eventually it loses its power and it doesn't matter who you tell and you don't care what they think because you kind of like, it literally loses its power.
But if you share with the wrong person, the first time you know, it could do, it could do more damage and it could put your healing back. So just be, just be mindful that, you know, when you do share, it's in a safe place, you know, try and find someone who is a professional to be able to get, get you through that.
Because it is, it is a lot, it is a lot to take on. It's a lot to share. It's a lot. And the last thing I would like to say, and you probably can, can help is when you do talk about and you share. Your body remembers that it's almost like you're back there.
Glen: Yeah, absolutely.
Kristi: So it's really important that you, you know, and you're ready because you, you could lay, it could lead to you spiraling downwards.
Glen: Absolutely.
Kristi: Yeah.
Glen: I, I do. There have been many times early, especially early in my journey, where sharing [00:54:00] my story with people where I literally am doing this as I'm speaking and I'm, your body does feel it. You feel it in all sorts of ways. And I, and I concur what you say with or strength what you're saying in speaking to the person, the first person you share with specifically, make sure it's someone that you can trust.
And I would recommend for men go to S A M S N, Sam Sam, they're called, they're in Parramatta. And I'll put it,
Kristi: I'll put it in the notes. So I'll make sure that's in the notes.
Glen: Yeah, they are really good. They run little online courses as well, so you can join other men and meet in little groups, or they have one on one counselling, and there are different ones out there, but just make sure, I would recommend first off speaking to someone, a professional, and and then, you know, take the advice from them to move forward.
It's yeah, be careful how you share it, but yeah. find the power in yourself. And you're right, Christy, the more you share the story, the more it loses its power. The more you lose the fear of response. I no longer give a shit what people think of me anymore, because I know that the, the, the the good outweighs that.
Kristi: Yeah.
Glen: Yeah.
Kristi: Amazing Glenn. Thank you so much for, for your [00:55:00] time. I know that it, you know, it's hard when we're so busy with everything, but I always appreciate hearing your story and hearing what you got. And I'm so proud of you.
Glen: Absolutely. And back at you mate. It's my honor to come on and speak to you Christy.
It always is.
Kristi: Thanks Glenn.
Glen: Thank you.
Kristi: Thank you for listening to this podcast episode. Education empowers children and empowers parents and education prevents abuse. That is why I'm here and that is why you are here. So thank you. If you want any further information or support, follow me on social media, either under Christy McVie or KAU social media accounts.
I'll put the links in the show notes. You can also purchase a copy of my book Operation Kids Safe via the [email protected]. Also, on my website is a free ebook titled 10 Tips to Keep Your Kids Safe from Abuse. and self paced courses for parents to help you in your journey of child abuse prevention.
Please see the [00:56:00] show notes for any extra information, links and help should you be looking for extra support. Thank you once again for giving a shit about preventing child sexual abuse. See you next time.
